Breaking the Mold: How Tony’s Chocolonely is Leading Ethical Chocolate Change

Chocolate is a treat we all love—but what if we told you that most of it comes at a cost? In this episode of Riveo Impact Lab, we sit down with Noel, U.S. Communications Specialist for Tony’s Chocolonely, to uncover the harsh realities of the chocolate industry and how one company is fighting for change.

Noel shares Tony’s Chocolonely’s bold mission to end exploitation in cocoa farming, the company’s unconventional origins, and how they’re using storytelling, branding, and transparency to reshape the industry. We also discuss how consumers can make more ethical purchasing decisions—without feeling overwhelmed.

From unequally divided chocolate bars to partnerships with major retailers, Tony’s Chocolonely is proving that business can be a force for good—one chocolate bar at a time.

Tune in to learn how your choices can create sweet change.

The Riveo Impact Lab is produced for you by Riveo Creative. For more Riveo Impact Lab content, including the video versions of all our episodes, please visit https://riveocreative.com/riveo-impact-lab/.

Transcript

0:00

[electronic music starts]

Emily Adams: 0:04

Welcome to the Riveo Impact Lab, the podcast in which we explore what it means for small businesses to have real impact in an evolving world. On this podcast, we engage our curiosity around topics like sustainability, diversity and inclusion, and the ethical outcomes of our decisions, all from a small business perspective. I'm Emily, and this is my co-host, Elin.

Elin Barton: 0:27

Let's talk about what it means to be an ethical consumer. From food to clothes to decor, we are always making decisions about what we purchase, whether these decisions are based on brand loyalty and costs and ease of access. But the decisions that we make with our wallets affect the world that we live in in huge ways. With our finances, we express what's important to us, what practices we find acceptable and unacceptable, and what we will and won't support. When considering the amount of purchasing decisions we make daily, it may seem overwhelming to make sure you're considering the large scale impact of these seemingly small choices. Luckily, in this episode, we have help figuring out what it means to be a conscious consumer, beginning with the world of chocolate.

Emily Adams: 1:19

Today you'll be hearing our conversation with Noel, the US communications specialist for Tony's Chocolonely, a Dutch chocolate company that has quickly expanded worldwide. The mission of Tony's Chocolonely is to end exploitation in the chocolate industry, and it has worked toward this mission via its chocolate production, branding, partnerships and activism. In this talk, Noel sheds light on how Tony's Chocolonely encapsulates its mission and tells a story through its marketing. We also talk about how it creates an employee culture of purpose and passion through all levels of the company. So sit back, grab some ethically-made chocolate, and enjoy this conversation with Noel.[electronic music concludes] So, Noel, welcome to the Riveo Impact Lab. We're so grateful to be able to talk to you today.

Noel: 2:12

Thank you so much for having me.

Emily Adams: 2:14

Yeah. Of course. So first I just want to know a little bit about you. I know that you're here from Tony's Chocolonely. Very exciting to talk to someone from a chocolate company. It's sort of like, seems like a dream job, a dream position to be able to work for a company like that. What was your trajectory that led to where you are now in the company?

Noel: 2:35

I love that question. So I am a little bit of an anomaly for my generation I think. They say Gen Z moves around a lot. I've actually been at Tony's for six years now. I started fresh out of college, and I'm still with the company today. It all really started with a passion for marketing. I think when you're looking at a career path and trying to figure out what makes sense for you, it's important to consider, like, what makes you happy at the end of the day? And that was something my dad always drilled into me was, “Listen. Work life balance is a nice idea, but ultimately you're working at least eight hours a day, five days a week. That's a big part of your life. So you want to make sure to be happy.” And for me, I found that the perfect mix in a job would combine a little bit of the analytical side, because I'm a bit of a data nerd myself, and a little bit of the creative side. I've always been someone with side passions of water coloring and sewing and, so bringing a little bit of each together is kind of the perfect balance within marketing. And when I started to consider,“Okay, what, what does that actually look like when it forms into a career?” I had gone to college at Western Washington University in the Pacific Northwest, and at the time, Tony’s Chocolonely was based out of Portland, Oregon in the US, just barely getting started, dipping our toes in. And I happened to find their open job application. I think I had it on my computer for three days, trying to make sure that I filled it out and made it absolutely perfect. There was just some crazy alignment between myself and between the brand. One of the questions they brought back was, “Okay, so what ideas are you, like, bringing to the company? What would you love to see us do in the marketing department?” And I remember one of the things I said was, “It would be so fun if we had some kind of vehicle for our mission, literally,” and, threw out the idea of essentially a truck that would go around. And the people that were hiring and interviewing said, “You know, that's so funny. We actually have a choco truck in production right now.”

Emily Adams: 4:42

[Laughs.]

Noel: 4:43

So I think it just was so synergetic, that connection. And, you know, it really says something that I'm still here, I think, and it's just been basically love at first bite.

Emily Adams: 4:55

Absolutely. I love that. And actually, what you just said, you know, that it is, it says something that you're still there. You know, if Gen Z is known for kind of moving around a lot, and yet you're talking about six years at the same place, that's a deep connection. And can you talk a little bit about what the mission is of Tony's and what made you feel so connected to that mission?

Noel: 5:16

Yes, I'd love to. I think Tony's is such an anomaly in its own way, too. It's such a special company. We actually say that we're an impact company that happens to make chocolate, not the other way around. And that's because we actually were started by a journalist roughly in the early 2000s, who happened to come across an article way in the back of his local newspaper that said “forced labor still exists in the chocolate industry today,” which is a really shocking headline to read, and furthermore, even more shocking that it was all the way back at his local paper. He said, “This is something that feels like front page news.” And so he took it into his own hands, not only to investigate it, but to really find a solution and said,“I don't want to live in a world where I can't feel good about the chocolate I'm eating. It's such a happy product, and to have such bitter origins is the worst kind of irony.” So not only did he investigate, he spoke to chocolate companies who unfortunately didn't have too much to say on the matter. But he actually even ended up suing himself as a chocolate criminal, if you've ever heard of such a thing,...

Emily Adams: 6:22

[Laughs]....under this Dutch law that essentially said if you purchase goods and you know that those goods are procured through illegal origins, then you also are responsible for that crime. Wow.

Noel: 6:35

And he said, “I know that most of the world's chocolate is made with illegal labor. So if I sit down in front of the camera, eat every chocolate bar you can possibly imagine, and then call up the police and turn myself in, theoretically, I should get arrested.” Unfortunately, that didn't quite happen. And he did pursue a case in court where he prosecuted himself as a chocolate criminal. But essentially, there's no traceability in the chocolate industry. So even if you sat down, even if you had witnesses from on the ground in West Africa saying, “I was forced to work as a child on a cocoa farm,” there's no connection that can be proven between the two. So Teun, exasperated, said, “I need to do something about this. I need to prove that it can be done,” and voila! That's where Tony's Chocolonely came from, took it into his own hands to create a chocolate company he could feel good about eating. And I think that story is so special because it relates back to this quote from Anita Roddick that says, “If you think you're too small to have an impact, try going to bed with a mosquito in the room.” it shows the impact that even someone so small that might not be the, the person you would think of as the founder of a chocolate company, can make. And I think Tony's Chocolonely has truly had that attitude internally. Ever since I was an intern, I've felt that I've had a real impact at the company, and every single piece is treated as something that's important because we know in order to change the chocolate industry, to end exploitation, we all need to do it together.

Emily Adams: 8:03

That's incredible. What a fascinating story. And I knew a little bit about Tony's, but I did not know that he sued himself. That is really, really interesting. I mean, that's, that's somebody who says,“I really care about this. I believe in what I'm saying, and I'm putting myself and my own, like, body on the line.” That's a big difference, I think, than some steps that people are willing to take.

Noel: 8:23

Oh, absolutely. There's a long distance between talking the talk and walking the walk. And being ready and willing to send yourself to jail over a cause that you care about is pretty far on the walking the walk line, let alone starting a chocolate company and making sure that you have something you can feel good about. Yeah, absolutely. That's, that's amazing. What a story. And for you, how did you connect to that mission personally in a way that made you say, “I'm all in on this, and I'm going to stay here and be a part of this”? I think I was drawn to the mission right off the bat. And a piece of advice my grandfather gave me when I was looking at what career to go into is he said, “Marketing is all spin, you know. You're kind of selling out. You're paid to say whatever message is coming to you.” And as the young, idealistic person that I was, I said, “Absolutely not. That's not going to be me.” And so when I graduated college and was looking for a career, I really wanted to work somewhere that I felt good about, somewhere where I felt like I was making an impact every day. And Tony's was absolutely that place. I think we are so intentional about the work that we do, and we say that we're not built like a balloon. We’re built like an onion. So even if you poke a hole in one thing, the entire thing doesn't fall apart. There's another layer under it. And that's something that I've really come to love. But when it became personal and really felt real for me, was when I met farmers for the first time. We've had the opportunity to have a celebration of our impact every year in Amsterdam, where the company comes together in our hometown. And part of that is bringing farmers out from West Africa as well. And they get to speak about their experience and how working with Tony’s has changed their life. And being able to hear those stories firsthand, being able to see the people that you are impacting every day with your work is something truly special.

Emily Adams: 10:20

Absolutely. That's, that's incredible. And I can see how that would connect you to that mission, to actually meet the people that you are impacting. And you wouldn't think from the outside that a chocolate company, that doing marketing for a chocolate company is going to give you that sense of fulfillment. But it's, it's pretty amazing that it has. Are there any stories in particular that stick out to you?

Noel: 10:41

One thing that I remember from my very first fair—that's what we call those celebrations when we come together—is, we were asking questions around how have things changed for you since working with Tony? And is there anything more you wish that Tony's could do for you? And I think it's no surprise in a lot of business relationships, there's always more that can be done. But in this case, the only thing they came back with was,“Buy more of our chocolate, buy more of our cocoa beans,” because that makes such a big difference for them and in the life that they're able to lead. There was a really beautiful series we did with a famous photographer/videographer, Joshua Kissi, who went on the ground and told stories of a lot of the farmers that we have deep connections with, even still today. And hearing those firsthand stories is really powerful. Like, “I was able to buy my child a laptop and be able to get them to be plugged into another educational world that they didn't have access to before.” And looking at the numbers, it's, it's really shocking. Cocoa farmers earn $0.78 on average a day. And when you think about what you make, what you live on, what it feels like it would be difficult to live on here, it's just completely unimaginable. You know, I don't think twice about spending $0.78 on a, on a Coca Cola at the local market. Honestly, I don't think there is a product I could get for that little. So being able to, to really see the difference you're making in helping someone make a living income for hard, earnest work, it's, it's really important. It's work that needs to be done, and it needs to be so much bigger than just Tony's.

Emily Adams: 12:18

Absolutely. And I mean looking at chocolate as, like, a luxury product to then think that those who are actually responsible for making that are earning so little, typically, it's really kind of heartbreaking because there's such a huge divide between how these people are living and how people who are purchasing chocolates are living even...

Noel: 12:39

Yes.

Emily Adams: 12:39

...because you can’t purchase a chocolate for $0.78.

Noel: 12:42

Absolutely. Something we love to say is people will come and say, you know, “Tony’s, you're so expensive,” and we say, honestly, other chocolate is just too cheap. If you can't afford a living income off of that, it's too cheap. The bar has been set too low.

Emily Adams: 12:58

Absolutely, yes. And, you know, as a big fan of Tony's, 100% worth the price. It's delicious. I mean, it's not just like, this is good for the world and it has a positive impact. That's not the only reason I buy it. I buy it because it's probably the best chocolate I've ever had. [Laughs.]

Noel: 13:15

I have to say the same. And this isn't just coming because I work from Tony's. But the first time I had a Tony's bar was actually while I was studying in college, and I went looking for the largest chocolate bar...[Laughs] ...I could possibly find, being stressed out by finals exams. And that was Tony's. It's a huge bar and it's such quality chocolate, which is something we really pride ourselves in as well, that it just makes it an easy decision, I think.

Emily Adams: 13:41

Yeah, absolutely. I agree. So let's talk a little bit about the bar. I have my favorite here with me. So I really love the chocolate caramel sea salt. That's my personal favorite. And the branding is incredible. So you have, I brought, I have two different kinds. So you can see like the colors are just so vibrant and they're really beautiful to look at. And the packaging is just really unique. So all the way from, you know, the name to the packaging and what's inside the packaging to the way that the chocolate bar is broken up is all very intentional. Could you talk through those elements a bit and what they mean? Yes, absolutely. So where I want to start is with Teun, the founder of Tony's, which we spoke a little bit about already. Teun, first of all, recognized it's a little bit of a difficult name for English speakers to grasp. So instead, when he was coming up with the brand, he said something that's going to be easier to pronounce is Tony. So that's who Tony's is, for anyone who asks, which is many people. And Chocolonely stands for his lonely fight to end exploitation in the cocoa industry. So the name even tells the story of the journalists who had started the brand. And that very first bar we created was our classic milk chocolate, and it was wrapped in an alarmingly red wrapper. The reason being is it brought attention to the issues in cocoa, and it drew your eye. If you think about the chocolate shelf today, it's a lot of white and black and brown. And so Tony's naturally stands out. We're really calling attention to the issues. And on the inside of every wrapper is an explanation of our mission and what's going on in cocoa today. We are aware of the fact that the best way to raise awareness of the issue is through the product itself. When you're having that experience, that's when you get time with the chocolate and time to really reflect on, exactly what you said, it's, it's a luxury. And to be able to have that, to choose that where there is not as much of an option elsewhere, it really puts it in stark contrast. The other thing that we've really intentionally done is, look at the bar mold. Most chocolate today is perfectly, equally divided into little squares or rectangles. And there was something really ironic about that when the chocolate industry itself is completely unequally divided. And so we said, “We're going to shake things up and we're going to tell that story even with the bar mold itself.” And it wasn't a popular decision at first when we first made the change. There were a lot of people saying, “You've absolutely ruined my life and my family. Now everyone's fighting over the big piece of chocolate.”

Emily Adams and Noel: 16:14

[Laughs.]

Noel: 16:15

But it's an opportunity. When someone sees that unequally divided bar and says, “Hey, what's the deal with this? Why does it look that way?” That's an opportunity to do storytelling and to say,“Hey, there's something really important happening in the chocolate industry. And just by eating chocolate, you can help join us in changing it.”

Emily Adams: 16:32

I love that because you can say, you can claim, as a company, that you have missions. But these missions can sort of be behind the scenes. It's, it's secondary to the product. And in this case, with every move that has been made with this chocolate, it's very clear the mission is first and the product is part of that mission. And I love that you said it's, it's a way of storytelling because we are a video marketing company, and storytelling is what we always go back to with people. Like the way you get people to understand what you're trying to share with them is by telling a story, more than data, more than all of these things, which you need to have, but it is being able to tell a story. And so for me, every time I'm like, “Oh, this is hard to break,” I'm thinking about why. It reminds me of why. And it's a very easy story to share with other people when I share the chocolate with them. So that's an incredible choice I think, ultimately.

Noel: 17:26

Yeah, absolutely. I find that a person-to-person communication too is so important. There's nothing I trust more than if my best friend comes to me and tells me, “Hey, I love this. And there's a great reason why.” We've really baked that, truly, literally, into the brand.

Emily Adams: 17:42

Yeah. Certainly have. I think it's—I remember bringing this chocolate, actually, to one of our team meetings and being really excited to share it with everyone and say, “Okay, this is going to be the best chocolate you've ever had. Also...” [Laughs] “...there's a really big mission and story behind this. And isn't this cool?” And everybody loved it. So it was great. So I want to talk a little bit about the culture of the employees. So I've had the very good fortune to be at the Tony’s store in Amsterdam. I've been up to the Netherlands a couple of times, and the employees there, first of all, very friendly, very like engaged. But they were also all very well versed on the mission and on the purpose behind what they're doing. So how do you think Tony’s has been able to create this culture among their employees, in which everyone is passionate about the mission and is really able to clearly articulate it?

Noel: 18:31

I think there's something really special about working for a company that you're inspired by. But I would say the mission in and of itself does a lot of the heavy lifting. But we say that our culture is co-created. It's not just about the company bringing culture to its employees, but employees bringing their culture back to the company as well. Having been at the brand for so long, I'd say every two years we go through a little bit of a cultural shift. I feel like I've lived through three phases or three lifetimes of the company in its own way, especially due to the amount of growth that we've seen. But over that time, the general feeling of, of human connection has always been there. It's this understanding that if you do right by people, they'll do right by you. And I think that's something that we all really treasure about Tony's. And it's, there's something to the idea that “like calls to like.” For instance, I was drawn to Tony's because of its mission. So of course, I'm going to be excited about its mission. And I think that's true for a lot of us, is that we're drawn to Tony's because of that. You get more juice out of the screenings with people that are so happy and excited and passionate to be there.

Emily Adams: 19:39

Mmm. Yeah. That makes so much sense. And I know that a lot of our listeners are small businesses, that also want to make a positive impact. So I think just knowing some of those ways that you extend that to the employees is really important because it gets people on board in a real internal way to where they're giving, you know, out of a desire to be a part of the mission that you have established. So I think that's fantastic. You mentioned that you've gone through, you know, a few phases. What, what would you say has come out of this most recent phase of change?

Noel: 20:14

I would say that the biggest thing is a push for more growth and expansion, and just making sure that we have the ability to get chocolate in the hands of people. Ultimately, we know that in order to change the industry, everyone needs to have the option to choose better, to choose something that aligns with their values. And by expanding, so, for instance, working with Walmart, who we just launched with in April, we are able to be so much more readily available to people all over the country. We've expanded to Canada in the last year. It's, we like to say that the brand has been on a bit of a rocket ship recently, and we're taking off, on a mission to, to, to take the moon. So it's, it's been a lot about making sure that everyone has the ability to join in. There's a real appetite we're feeling in the US for brands that taste great and do great too. And so just being able to be accessible to people is honestly, I think one of the biggest barriers right now. People are interested, they want to join in. We've just got to make sure that they can.

Emily Adams: 21:17

Yeah. I mean, congratulations on the expansion so far. I have no doubt it's going to continue. Like I said, it's such high-quality product, and people can really get excited about the mission, so, that's fantastic. I want to talk a little bit about impact. So I would guess that most people, myself included, have not given a lot of thought to exploitation in the chocolate industry. Much like, you know, Teun had not until he saw it in the, in the back of a newspaper, which is really interesting. It wasn't even, you know, front page news. Once you are opened up to something, once your eyes are opened, you can't unknow that thing. So how can people begin to appropriately consider their own impact when it comes to what they're purchasing, without just being kind of overwhelmed.. [Laughs]...by the fact that everything might be, like, bad for me or bad for the world in some way.

Noel: 22:10

I think that's the ultimate question of our generation. Like, how are we able to contribute to a better world while still being able to live and not doing research 24/7? It is wild the amount of choices before us every day, and how each of them impacts people and planet. I think the nice thing about Tony's is we're pragmatists. We recognize that everything can be perfect all of the time. So I think my biggest advice in life and in this space is don't let perfect be the enemy of the good. I think sometimes we care so much and we have such high standards. It feels tough when you find out something hasn't been going the way that you've wanted it to. The way that people's faces fall when they find out that one of their favorite luxuries, they've been contributing indirectly to exploitation this whole time, it's a really heavy message. And it's not just true for chocolate. It's true for a lot of products. We heard about fair trade first, you know, globally through coffee really. It's, fair trade is a really important issue for bananas. There's a ton of products out there that have origins that you have an indirect impact on as a consumer. And often there are choices that are better out there. Are we going to be able to change everything at one time? Are you going to be able to flip a switch overnight and suddenly make everything perfect? Absolutely not. So through the process, I think we all need to have grace with ourselves. And once we do know, hopefully there are ways that we can make little lifestyle change, changes that add up over time. For instance, with Tony’s, I hope it's a way that people can just shift their chocolate eating habits slightly and still have a delicious, indulgent time while doing it.

Emily Adams: 23:58

That's great. And I think that reminder of not letting the perfect be the enemy of the good is so important. Because the reality is we'll never get to the perfect. So if we're waiting until we're able to do that, we're never going to make any progress at all. So I think that's such an important reminder. Is there anywhere that you would suggest people can go where they can maybe check out some companies that they are using and see if they're ethical companies?

Noel: 24:22

One of my favorite resources is the Chocolate Scorecard. It's brought together by a bunch of independent organizations who are really focused on ending child labor and exploitation in cocoa. So it's really well researched, and it gives companies scores on a bunch of different areas, whether it's child labor or deforestation, sustainability, across the board. So it's a really great third party assessment to learn more information. Another great way, honestly, is just through companies’ websites. For places outside of chocolate, you can find a lot of information there. And if you don't, that says a lot to.

Emily Adams: 24:57

Mmm. That's great. That's so helpful. I think any practical guides that we can get our hands on always helps people make that one next step, whatever that might be. So that's great. What are some takeaways from the culture of Tony's, that you believe would benefit any company culture, that you've seen in your role or, how you've seen things be positively impacted for other employees, wherever you want to take that. I think if there's one throughline in everything that we do at Tony's, it's about taking responsibility. We recognize that we have an impact on stakeholders on the ground in West Africa, in our retail partners, and even internally here at Tony's. And we take responsibility for that. I think, honestly, if most of us looked internally and asked ourselves, “Do I feel good about the organization I'm part of? And if there's something I don't feel great about, how can I change that?” The world would be a lot better of a place. I think our own internal north star takes us in the right direction. It's hard for a lot of businesses to look and say,“When I'm weighing this and I'm looking at my P&L, it's a difficult decision to make.” But I think similar to the message to the consumer is about slow change over time. And once you know, taking action and being responsible for your action as well as your inaction, I think we can make a lot of progress that way. That was a really good way to put that. Your action and your inaction. I think that that's fantastic. I'm gonna, that's going to stick with me, so I appreciate it. As the Riveo Impact Lab, we always like to ask, what does the idea of making an impact mean to you?

Noel: 26:35

To me, I think I was raised on the idea of leaving things better than you found them. And I think that's a lot of what impact is about to me. You know, when Tony's entering the chocolate industry, we're looking at what is the standard today? For instance, on average, on cocoa farms in West Africa, there is a greater than 40% incidence rate of child labor. we're able to bring that down to less than 4%. we're able to bring that down to less than 4%. And at farmers, direct farms that we've worked with long term, individual farm level, we're able to bring it down to less than 1%, which means it's a solvable problem. We just have to choose to solve it. Once you see those things, it's important to take the steps that are necessary in order to actually change it, whether that's your relationships with people and your suppliers, whether it's your relationship with the planet, whether it's your internal culture, I think that same message is true.

Emily Adams: 27:30

Yeah, that, that's fantastic. Yeah. Once you see that the problem can be solved, that just means that now we have the responsibility to do it. That's, that's a really good way to think of that. Well, Noel, this has been a fascinating and amazing conversation. I'm so, I was so excited to talk to you. And it was even more than I expected. So thank you so much. Where can people go to find out more about Tony's and maybe help make a difference and buy some chocolate?

Noel: 27:56

I say stay in touch with us. We are available on tonyschocolonely.com with tons of information about the cocoa industry and tons of delicious products. But we also send out a lot of information and updates over our Instagram and TikTok accounts, as well as our serious friends newsletter, so feel free to sign up there. And otherwise, feel free to connect on LinkedIn. Stay in touch wherever you can. We've got lots of exciting updates to come.

Emily Adams: 28:21

Amazing. Well, thank you again so much, Noel. It was a delight to have you.

Noel: 28:26

Thank you.[electronic music starts and concludes]

Emily Adams: 28:32

And now, here's our Impact Tip of the Month. Consider downloading an app that can give you the rundown on what you're buying. For example, Good on You is an app that allows you to check up on your favorite retail brands and see how they rank in the categories of environmental impact, labor rights, and animal welfare, as well as an overall rating. These types of tools can help you create positive impact, one decision at a time.[electronic music starting] Thanks for listening and make sure to do good in the world this month. If you have questions you'd like us to address on the podcast, you can reach us at info@riveocreative.com. Subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss out on any of our incredible upcoming guests. We'll see you soon at the Riveo Impact Lab.[electronic music concludes]