Leading with Responsibility: Chandra Chea on Decision-Making, Power, and People

In this episode, we sit down with Chandra Chea for a candid and thoughtful conversation about leadership, lived experience, and the weight of decision-making. Chandra shares her personal journey, the moments that shaped her perspective, and how navigating complex systems has influenced the way she leads, listens, and advocates for others.

Together, we explore what it means to lead with empathy while still making hard calls, how identity and experience inform leadership styles, and why representation and accountability matter—especially when decisions have real human impact. This episode invites listeners to reflect on power, responsibility, and the kind of leaders we need moving forward.

Whether you’re a leader, changemaker, or someone thinking deeply about impact and equity, this conversation offers insight, honesty, and practical wisdom.

The Riveo Impact Lab is produced for you by Riveo Creative. For more Riveo Impact Lab content, including the video versions of all our episodes, please visit https://riveocreative.com/riveo-impact-lab/.

Transcript

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[electronic music starts][Emily] Welcome to the Riveo Impact Lab, the podcast in which we explore what it means for small businesses to have real impact in an evolving world. On this podcast, we engage our curiosity around topics like sustainability, diversity and inclusion, and the ethical outcomes of our decisions, all from a small business perspective. Hi, I'm Emily.[Elin] And I'm Elin. We're really excited to share our episode today. But first we wanted to give you a few updates for 2026. So in order to bring you the best quality episodes, the Riveo Impact Lab is going to be changing our release schedule. We will be releasing episodes on the second Thursday of the month for the foreseeable future. And we're so excited about the guests we have lined up for 2026. Each of them brings wisdom and knowledge and insights that are both practical and empowering. So I hope you'll be able to join us for each and every episode. Make sure you don't miss any of them by following us on YouTube, on Spotify, or wherever you get your podcasts, and you can help support the show by listening to it, sharing and writing a review. Now, with all of that out of the way, we're proud to share our first interview of 2026 with Chandra Chea.[Emily] Yeah. So I had the opportunity to speak with Chandra. And she is the co-founder of Essence Consulting Collaborative, which is an LGBTQ+ and women-owned multilingual organizational development collective. And we'll get into everything that that means. Chandra and I talked a lot about the nonprofit world and how their missions are often not properly aligned with their systems, leaving their impact stifled and leaving key people at the organizations frustrated. So what Chandra and her team at EEC do is help these teams create systems starting from the lens of inclusivity, equity and accessibility. And we got connected with Chandra through Elin, who actually had the opportunity to meet her a couple of years ago. So, Elin, tell us how you met Chandra.[Elin] So Chandra and I first met because we were both part of this networking group for companies that work in life sciences, and at the time, Chandra was the director of the supplier diversity team at a large pharmaceutical company. So I was introduced to her and I mentioned that at Riveo Creative, we were just launching our Diversity Advisory Board. And, even though I had just met her, she was like, “Hey, I would love to be part of that,” which was surprising because I knew that she was a very busy person. And our board is a volunteer board. I wasn't paying our board members. And, so I, you know, talked to her a bit more about that to explore. And just the more I talked to her, the more I got excited about her great ideas and her enthusiasm, her authenticity. And she's been an incredible asset to us on the Diversity Advisory Board. She's become a good friend, and I just can't say enough good things about Chandra. She's a wonderful person and I'm thrilled that she got to be on our podcast.[Emily] Yeah, I really enjoyed our conversation. And I knew based on the, the insight that she offers our team and the way that she improves the work that we do at Riveo, that she would be able to really offer that insight to our, to our audience and our listeners as well. So I know that we're just really grateful she agreed to join us to share her perspectives on impact and the work that she does. So please, everyone, enjoy our conversation with Chandra Chea.[electronic music][electronic music concludes][Emily] All right. Hello, Chandra Welcome to the Riveo Impact Lab.[Chandra] Hi, Emily. Thank you so much for having me today. I'm so excited to be joining and talking to you.[Emily] Yeah. Me too. So everyone will already know that you're part of our diversity advisory board, and we've gotten lots of opportunities to work with you, but I'm excited to talk a little bit more about, you know, how you got to where you're at today. I think there's a lot that we can kind of uncover and get into. So can we just start with you telling us a little bit about yourself. So your current role, your organization just kind of give us like a broad strokes overview of where you're at today.[Chandra] Yeah, absolutely. So I am the co-founder of Essence Consulting Collaborative, along with my very good friend Breanna Rodriguez. I use she her pronouns and, we're a group of consultants that work with small to medium sized organizations to really help develop their internal systems and their practices. So we provide fractional, leadership and interim executive leadership services. And we also embed ourselves within teams, really working hand in hand with organizations to provide customized organizational development and system strengthening solutions. So I know that that sounds like a lot of buzzwords, but basically we just work with organizations to improve their day to day operations and then help them build a sustainable plan for their future. Ultimately, the goal being to help them better serve their communities. So really, the things that like set us apart with Essence Consulting is that we really focus on an equity and a people first lens. And that guides a lot of the work that I do today, a lot of the work that I do on the Diversity Advisory Council. And it decides our decision making process, both within our business, how we work with our internal consultants and also what recommendations we provide to clients. And so by centering equity, accessibility, inclusivity, we really make sure that both our internal practices are fair and our client recommendations are effective and impactful and also fair.[Emily] That's incredible. That's really important work. And I think that we're seeing, I hope, a continued trend toward companies and small businesses, you know, considering their impact. So tell me a little bit more. Let's go ahead and jump to talking a little bit about Essence Consulting Collaborative. What was the inspiration behind starting it, and how did you define the kind of impact that you wanted to make with this company?[Chandra] Yeah, that's a really good question. So as I mentioned, I co-founded it with one of my very good friends, Breanna Rodriguez. And, we met working together at a large nonprofit. And as our relationship grew, we got to know each other a little bit better. We started working more with each other. We realized that, like us, of young women of color and our space, like, had shared many very similar experiences, and we had very common ideas on how to address the issues that we're seeing. But working at a nonprofit, at a 9 to 5, we felt like our voices were a little limited. And so we ourselves experienced burnout in the workplace. We've experienced racism in the workplace, all of these things. And we started to notice that, like, there's a gap in the resources available for certain organizations, both financial and like educational resources. And we've noticed a lot of organizations had these big, amazing missions and their internal operations were rarely aligned with what their missions were. And as somebody working as a staff person, we were like not noticing it left and right. And so from that we decided, like, let's go off, let's try to do our own thing, let's do good work with good people, and with organizations that are wanting to do good and help them align their operations with their missions, help them address issues of, like unfairness within the organization that, like, might be unintentional or let's help them address kind of key concepts around savior of them or what potential like unintentional harm that they could be causing to either their staff members or the people that they're trying to serve. So we're really excited now to be at the phase of working with organizations very like head on to address a lot of these common issues that we're seeing across the board.[Emily] Yeah. That's amazing. That's, again, so important. And I think there's a few things you touched on that I would like to get into a little bit more. But first you kind of mentioned, you know, as an adult, you had some of these like life experiences that sort of shaped how you wanted to move forward. What are some maybe early life experiences that developed, you know, the person that you are and the person that you want to be in the world?[Chandra] Yeah. So I myself am a child of immigrants, a child of refugees. My parents escaped the Cambodian genocide and came to the States and had to rebuild their life from basically nothing. And so I learned at a very early age to recognize my privilege, you know, like you would. I talked to my parents about how hard a math test was, and they would be like, we used to study under a lamppost, you know, and so, like, know your privilege. And so I think, like from a very young age, I was able to kind of have that framework of like, I'm very privileged to not have to worry about meeting my basic needs every day. And what do I want to do with that privilege? And my mom ended up rebuilding her career from scratch and became a social worker focused on supporting, immigrants and getting their citizenship. And kind of watching her and the joy that she had in her work and the relationships that she built with people from around the world. Like that was something I was engaged in super young. So I started volunteering really young. I started being, I started having access to all of these different cultures and different languages from very young age. And service became a big part of, like my purpose and how I felt I could contribute to the world. Knowing that and growing up in this type of like, immigrant household. I also grew up in the Washington, DC area, so I went to predominantly white institutions, which are like schools that have predominantly white students with predominantly white teachers and administrators. And like all decisions are made with that lens and so coming home and having a very different home life and going to school and learning about all these rules and regulations and ways that you had to act in ways you have to speak in order to get people to listen to you. I think growing up in these predominantly white institutions, I was able to see kind of where racism popped up, where these issues of inequity popped up, where I was feeling othered, even starting at like a young age. And then I ended up going to Peace Corps. And I had these, like, young views of the world, right? Like we're going to save the world. We're going to do the best that we can do. We have all this knowledge from the Western world, from like college that we can go and teach people. And I was so grateful to have the experience at such a young age, because that really that whole experience woke me up. You know, I really got to like, question what my actual purpose was, whether I was actually making the impact I thought I was going to make, whether I was actually listening and taking it into account the history and the history of colonialism in various countries and perspectives of whiteness. So there are so many things that I realized out of these experiences early on where I've been called out, I've been like, made uncomfortable, and I've grown so much from those. And just noticing, like, I don't know everything. There's so many things that I'm not taking into account. And especially when I was early in my career, I was so afraid of making mistakes that it was like such a big deal every time these things came up. But I think over time and over, experience and over, just like having regular experiences where you're being called into a conversation and you're being called out for a certain type of behavior that I realized, like sitting in guilt wasn't effective and I had to move into action. Right? Like, your guilt can be like, I'm I didn't mean to do that. That wasn't my intention. But, my experience, I think has really helped propel me into that space of like, great, you didn't mean to do that, but now what are you going to do? What are you going to learn? How are you going to change? What are the actual systems you're going to put in place for that? So that was a very long answer to your question.[Emily] No, that was amazing and I completely agree. I think one of the biggest jumps, like for my personal life that I've ever been able to make is to say like, no, I'm going to make mistakes and I have to be okay with that, or I will be paralyzed.[Chandra] Absolutely.[Emily] But when you make that mistake, listen to the people who know better than you and who have the experience so that listening and being willing to be called out is huge. So I think that's fantastic. I, you know, I learned that you had spent time in the Peace Corps when I was doing like research for this episode. And I was like, that is amazing. I had no idea, such a cool, like, life experience. And you, you talked about it a bit, but are there any other, like, particular moments from that experience that you would say still guide the decisions that you make today?[Chandra] Yeah. I think there's just one very clear moment. This experience that, like, pops up in my head whenever I'm like asking it every question. I think our most uncomfortable experiences are the ones that stick with us the longest, at least it does for me. And so this is like a super uncomfortable experience for me. But it makes me question every time. Am I not considering someone else's perspective? I remember we were trying to get like a free ride to head back to our site. It was me and a friend, and we were trying to get on the bus, but the bus was full and, we had a police officer come onto the bus and say like, no, you have to take these volunteers with you on the bus. Even though it broke the rules and the bus was full. And in Zambia, I had a very unique experience of being known as AmaZulu in a lot of spaces, which is a white person, which is not the experience I have in America at all. And so there were moments during my Peace Corps experience where people perceive me as a white person, and the privileges that came with that, the respect that came with that, the way people listened because I was being perceived as white was so different than how my community members were listened to, how Zambians in general were listened to and respected. And so I remember trying to get on this bus and there was a teacher on the bus, and he stood up and he said, like, you would never, ever do this for a Zambian. You are only doing this because they're white. And then he, like, stood up in front of the whole bus. And he said that. And I remember I was like, you know, I'm early in like 21, 22 years old at this point. And I was so embarrassed. It was a bus full of people and we like, backed off the bus. And my immediate response was, that was so rude. We're just trying to get home. Oh my goodness. Like that was so embarrassing. Like immediate anger and frustration at this person. And as we kind of stood there and like talked about what had just happened, I started to realize, like, he was so right. These are like things that we were walking around and moving around in the country as if everybody just walks around and moves around like this. Why can't people achieve things if they can like do all of these things? And it's not true. It wasn't the case. And like for me to be so young in like my career of wanting to do international work or wanting to like, do service based work, I think it was really important for me to say, like, I'm not anybody special. I'm just a person who had the opportunity to come here and to live here and to learn from the people around me and like, I need to listen when people are telling me that I'm offending them or when I'm not taking their thought into consideration. So while for me it was like a super upsetting experience, I remember being really upset by it. I now like take it into my career like a decade later and like whenever I'm trying to make difficult decisions, whenever I'm trying to decide if something is fair or not like that experience comes up in my head where I say, like, are you operating out of your ego? Are you operating out of fear? Like what? Why are you operating in this way? And what are the stories that you're not considering? Who are the people that you're not considering? So I think that's like one story from my experience that, like, I stick with me, like to all of my decisions moving forward, and I try to carry every uncomfortable moment like that with me just to say, like, you don't know everything, and it's who knows everything, right? Like I was born in a certain environment. I only know what I know, but I do feel it's my responsibility to learn and to say, like, this person stood up and it was, I'm sure uncomfortable for him to have to say this and like extra effort on his part to have to educate me on my privilege in this country, his country. And I think from moving forward, from that experience, I'm constantly asking myself that question of like, what is my position of privilege here?[Emily] That's powerful. What a powerful experience to have. and I think it's like a very mature thing at that age even that you were able to step back and be like, he's right. Because I can imagine, you know, coming from the United States where that was not your experience, you're not experiencing that sort of privilege. It would have been easy to be like, “That's not true.”[Chandra] Yup.[Emily] “That’s not accurate.”[Chandra] Exactly Exactly. And I think it kind of shows, right, like these are all social constructs. These are all like how someone sees you is how they're going to treat you and how it's perceived. And so I think that was definitely a big learning for me and a huge experience in my experience to be perceived as white in certain spaces.[Emily] Right, right. Yeah. And I think, you know, a lot of what I've been noticing that I struggle with is seeing, like, very individualistic mindsets, even around the, you know, progressive space, even around, like trying to do good in the world. There's a lot of individualism and if we can kind of move back towards, like, community.[Chandra] Yes.[Emily] And focusing on community and focusing on not needing to be special but wanting to be good for our community. We're going to take a lot more strides. That's my first thing.[Chandra] I absolutely agree. You know, I think a lot of times, especially in the space I'm in, working with a lot of nonprofits or service based organizations, there's a big question of, are you doing this for the people that you're trying to serve? Are you trying to uphold their dignity and actually provide the services they need? Or are you doing this to feed an ego of yours? Are you doing this out of a sense of failure of or I have a sense of you are better at I want to help these people. And I think that's a big question that a lot of leaders have to grapple with is why they're doing a certain thing, and whether they're actually trying to serve the people that they say they are, or if they're trying to serve their own egos, which is it's a hard it's a hard thing to come by. Nobody wants to address that. Like their ego is the problem.[Emily] Yeah, absolutely. And it's I think it's just a huge problem that a lot of people face. And so like it, you know, it starts with being honest with yourself and being okay with that. But what else would you suggest that leaders do to sort of take internal stock and figure out what their motivation is, because your motive, they ultimately will affect your behavior?[Chandra] Absolutely. Yeah. I think, there's a lot that is on the plate of a small business owner. Right. And so a lot of times they can kind of see this as like another thing that you have to do, another compliance thing, another extra step, another team you have to form. But I think at the end of the day, this type of work is exactly what you were saying. It's like that personal internal work, right? Like I would challenge all of these notions of like, I have to do this and start asking yourself as like, is it a priority for myself that I work with people who are treated fairly? Is it a priority for myself that I build a business which is inherently, especially the small business owner and the amount of control you can have, like an extension of yourself in the world and your impact in the world. Do I want a business that operates fairly and equitably? Is it important that the people that we serve are treated fairly? Like I think when you answer those questions, it becomes very clear what your next step is, right? Like, if you look around at the people around you and you say, I want my coworker, I want this person working in my organization to be treated well and to have a well-rounded life. I'd like to be happy when they come into the workplace, or to be, like, excited about something when they come into the workplace. You know, you have to start by saying like, is that's something I'm willing to commit to. And I think when it comes to initiatives around equity, it's an like it's an everyday commitment. It's like it's when you interact with people, when you're walking down the street, it's whatever initial thought comes in your head when you see a different group of people. It's like all of those pieces of active work that I think people need to like, really ask themselves, is that something I'm committed to? And I think early in my career I spent a lot of time on diversity council. I spent a lot of time doing all of this work to try to get people to care. And we could look at the burden of work and I'm sitting around in groups with majority people of color who are trying to, like, create these spaces in their workplace where they're valued and listened to and like given the same salary and given the same level of respect and all of these other things. And we're fighting this uphill battle in these committees that require extra work that have no, like, input on our performance evaluation, no input on any raises or bonuses. And so you're really a lot of places these initiatives look like putting an extra burden on the people of color in your organization to do this. So I think a big question to ask yourself is like, am I ready to take on this burden? Is this an organization that, like I care about and I care about the people that are around me with me working here? So I think it, it is a lot it's a lot to get into the work. But I think it starts with asking yourself really key questions and then saying, okay, I'm committed to it, not just at my workplace, but like day in and day out because you can't have a certain perspective in the workplace and have a certain perspective outside of the workplace. Right.[Emily] Yeah, absolutely. I think you've made several good points there, like one of which is that you know, who what if you are a business owner, if you're founding a business then that fit that business and the values that you're putting out into the world are an extension of who you are and what you believe. And so you have to come to terms with that.[Chandra] Absolutely. And like, I don't think it's my job to convince you, right, that people matter. I think that is your job to decide whether you think people matter in your organization or you think the people around you in your community matter. Like I've noticed from, you know, pushing myself to points of burnout and trying to, like, create tools and templates and presentations and bring in inclusive bias or like, you know, bias trainings and all of these things that it doesn't matter unless the leader of the organization actually cares about the people that they're employing and the people that they're serving.[Emily] Absolutely. You can't train people to be compassionate right here.[Chandra] Yeah. We're fighting an uphill battle here. Yeah.[Emily] Yeah, absolutely. I think that's entirely fair. And, you know, there are resources out there if people want them to help with that initial step.[Chandra] But yes, you have to make that commitment first. And then I think there's plenty of resources out there. There's plenty of people that can provide you the advice you're looking for. You can always create something like a diversity advisory council or things like that. Like it doesn't always have to be an extra cost, an extra burden on your staff. There's so many solutions out there. But I think the first thing is saying that you're committed to it. And then looking at all of the structures within your organization and saying, are we aligned with what we're being committed, what we're committing to right now?[Emily] Yeah. And I think to, you know, understanding that that commitment means that it's what you care about and value internally so that when the tides change, as they have been, we are still committed, it doesn’t rock the boat and we don't have to wonder, do we stay with these commitments and these, you know, initiatives that we started? It's like, well, that's not a question. That's who we are.[Chandra] And I think, you know, I think it's to call out like a perspective here. It's, a unique option to say, hey, I don't care about diversity, equity and inclusion. Right? Because, like, for me, if I'm working for an organization that doesn't care about that, I have a lower salary, I'm treated in a certain way. I receive these things. So it's not a choice for me whether I care about it or I don't, because it affects how I'm treated every day in life. Whereas other people may have the power to say, is this a choice that I choose to, like, is this an action that I choose to be a part of, or is this something I just want to sit back and enjoy the benefits of society gives me? And I don't really care about how I might how society might treat other people differently. Right? So I think, like even that choice of should I be engaged or should I not? What should I do? I shouldn't for a lot of people, it's not a choice.[Emily] Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. That's really, really good to remember. And that if you find yourself in a position of making a choice, realizing that's a privileged position.[Chandra] Absolutely. Yeah.[Emily] So let me ask you for, you know, small business owners, like you said, you know, often small business owners in particular are juggling a lot. Where do you suggest they start when trying to build internal processes that actually support equity and impact?[Chandra] Yeah, I think that's a great question. I think first, it's obviously we talked about looking inside, looking at your goals and then looking at like your organization's goals, like what have you built around being this type of organization that you say that you want to be right? Do you even have any goals that are tied towards it or not? And I would say when looking at like measuring, what's the type of work that you're doing? A lot of times measurements are very like quantitative. So we've done 100% of staff have received an unconscious bias training. Like 50% of staff have done this and that, you know, and I would encourage organizations to go beyond the, the quantitative data and dive into qualitative. Start asking the people that you're working with, start asking the people that you're serving and beyond just asking, right? You need to create an environment where feedback is actually something that people can give. It's are you creating the channels and the environment within your organization where you can say, oh, we have an open door policy, but is it really open, right? Or I will be consequences to people sharing things? Or do you have anonymous feedback systems within your organization so people can share things for those who are less comfortable speaking face to face or bringing things up in a meeting. Right? And I think as you're building your organizational culture, people become more and more willing to share things as they build their trust with their employer and with their organization. But you can't start there. You can't start saying like, oh, if there's an issue, someone will bring it up, or oh, like if there's a problem here, someone will call it out. I think there needs to be a lot of active engagement from your end to actually figure out what is going on in your organization. If people don't want to share, why is that? You know, I think it's beyond just like, oh, we're meeting these set metrics towards our goals or we're developing these metrics towards our goals. You have to work towards building a culture within your organization that actually cares about what people say and protects people from retaliation, and actually creates that avenue for people to take ownership of the workplace that they want to work in. Right? I think us all, as human beings, want to have ownership in our work, want to feel like we have a sense of control in our lives. And I think engaging people in these conversations is a way to do that. And I think it also is a way to address that fear that a lot of people have about making a mistake. Right? The more you ask questions, the more you can engage people in decision making, the less your chances are of offending someone, of doing something that actually causes harm and so I think these are a way for people to start understanding what's currently being done, and whether they want to make a commitment towards improving that in their organization or not. I think there's also like a couple of key questions that people can ask yourself, about, like difficult decisions. Right. And so if you're asking, is this decision equitable? You have to ask like, could there be flow down effects of this decision that impacts someone negatively? And you have to go through the active thought exercise of sitting there and thinking it through and actually like it's not a side thought. It's not a like, oh, well, like have somebody review for an equity lens. It's everybody's job to sit here and say, hey, is this positively impacting the people that we serve? And like the staff that we're working with. So I think there are a couple of like key questions that you can ask yourself.[Emily] Yeah, that's fantastic. And I think, you know, like you said it, it brings in more of that. Like, oh, the open door policy to me brings in more of like a community mindset than it does that hierarchical, individualistic mindset. So it's all kind of coming back to that idea of community and being able to have these conversations. And I think it is incumbent on the leadership to make sure that that's happening, because even in our day to day lives and our relationships, many people are conflict averse. That's pretty normal. And so add to it, you know, someone who's paying your salary, and that sort of thing. And then it makes it can be very, very difficult so I think keeping that in mind is really important.[Chandra] Absolutely, absolutely. I think there are some things that we can kind of consider also in addition to that is like, who are the people that I'm engaging in my decision making? Is it just leadership or is it people across the organization? Right. And you talked a little bit about kind of that hierarchical structure and like in my mind and the way that we operate Essence and the way that we see a lot of our clients is that everybody plays an essential role, whether it's taking notes in a meeting or it's making high level strategic decisions. Without that person, things are not functioning. Who's going to follow up on the notes, who's going to like, set the schedule. There's no one in my perspective that is more important than the other. Everyone fulfills a various role to help the organization grow, you know what I mean? And I think when it comes to decisions making, everybody deserves a voice and where they're going every day and spending the majority of their time out every day. If you're including, like, commuting and everything and you know it's most of your day. So like, what kind of environment are you trying to create for the people around you?[Emily] Yeah. And if like, let's say there's a business that's listening right now and they're like, I am really inspired by this. But right now I don't feel like my employees are comfortable coming to me. What is a step that you think maybe they could take?[Chandra] Yeah, I think it's a great question. I think, taking a look at who are the trusted people in your organization, right. Whether like staff going all the way up to a CEO or an executive director, that's very anxiety producing. At least it was for me when I was a staff member, you know, and so I think, identifying who are the people that they are comfortable talking to, what are those communication pathways. Right. If they're closer with their manager, if that someone that you can you reach out to the manager and ask if there's like overall feedback from the team about certain things. Right. I still like protect maybe the person who wants to share that information. So always really thinking around like who are the people who can help you in this space? You're not alone, right? I've like you like I want to get into this work. Oh my gosh, I have to do it all by myself. On the business owner. Like, not the case. So I would say like leverage the people in your organization and then also start priming your organization to create feedback systems that work for your organization. Right? Start looking at what are the types of different feedback that we want to collect. How can we? I never really hear from this person, make an active effort to form a relationship with that person. I think in a lot of organizations, when a leader is able to work with anybody at any level of their organization and sit down with them and really care about their development, you would be shocked by what is shared and building that trust. But number one, if building that trust right, there's a power dynamic here where you make more money, you make most of the decisions. It's like typically a lot of flow down happening in a lot of organizations. And so you're staff, you have to sit in their shoes and say like, okay, my staff member does not have the power in this conversation when it comes to like, their employment, their salary level, all of these things. How can I build a trusting relationship with them and actively working towards that? I think something else that comes up with this all the time and having difficult conversations, especially in areas where people are emotional about this, it impacts people's everyday lives, right? It impacts how people can drive every day. It impacts how people can walk in the street every day. And so inherently, emotions are going to come up in this conversation. Know that I know that this is hard for people know that sometimes people don't want to talk about it because they have to deal with it every second of the day outside of work. Maybe they're coming to work to not talk about it. You know, maybe this conversation is retraumatizing. If you're forcing a conversation on someone who's not ready to have it. So I think really taking a look at, like, what you're asking when you're asking it, why you're asking it, is it just information for information? Or are you going to do something about it? Right. I think a lot of people provide feedback. There's amazing, amazing ideas in organization that I feel as a consultant. I'm like, I don't even need to be here. You have all the solutions. The issue is a lot of the time communication. And with this type of topic, I think difficult conversations are going to come about. People might say something that might hurt somebody's feelings, or people might not understand things right away, which may frustrate other people. There's like so many emotions tied into this. I would say take a course or look up for some resources on having a difficult conversation, having a nonviolent conversation. Right. If you are a leader in this space and somebody is getting upset or their energy is elevating, like, how can you calm the situation? How can you make them feel listened to? How can you move forward after that conversation? Right. Because it's listening is one piece. But at the end of the day, if you're not doing anything about it, then like, what was the point of me even talking right? So I think, being able to train your managers, your staff, like all across the board on having a difficult conversation, what that structure looks like, I think is a great place to start knowing that you deprive yourself for some big organizational changes. If this is the very first time you're talking about it in your organization.[Emily] That's excellent advice. And it gets right down to like the very basics and things that we are just not learning. When we go into structures that are built around like power systems, how you have the power. So you get to make the decisions rather than, let's learn how to have difficult conversations, how to be wrong, how to take that information. Yeah. Active listening, all of these types of things, are so crucial for this work to actually be effective.[Chandra] So I'm like, I'm a systems and data girl. So I love like collecting data. I love analyzing data. I love like all of all of these things. But at the end of the day, I started realizing with in organizations that unless they're primed for change management, unless they're primed to have a difficult conversation, unless you're actually ready to move into action, and to actually create an environment that listens and hears from your staff. It doesn't matter how many tools, templates, trainings anybody takes. Like I've not found it to be effective. For my experience.[Emily] Yeah, that's really good to keep in mind. And I want to ask you and I don't have too much time left. I don't want to take up too much of your time, but what, is inspiring you right now in the world of small business or social change? Like who or what are you looking to for inspiration?[Chandra] What's inspiring me right now in the small business world? I think so. For me, I moved away from like a standard 9 to 5 and started our own business because we were both born out right. We said we needed not just time for our family that we need, but time for our family that we want, time for the people in our lives that we want, you know, to have a real work life balance. And that was something that was the goal of going into a small business and something that's difficult, especially as a small business owner, to actually say, oh my gosh, we have to file our documentation, we have to pay our taxes. We have to do all of these things on top of it. We want to be good managers of the people that we've brought in onto our team. On top of it, we need to maintain these positive client relationships. I was so many things, and I think it's almost like scope creep happens. It kind of like propels you into this small business mindset of like, we got to be like a startup. We got to like work 9 to 5 or and then extra on top of that. Right. And especially as a business owner, you feel so accountable for so many people and so many things, that it gets to be overwhelming and something that I have loved doing with my business partner, Breanna is that we check in a lot and we say even at the At, sometimes we'll check in every day at the end of the day. Sometimes it'll be regularly like weekly, but we'll say like, hey, we're both really exhausted. We've been overworking. Are we acting in alignment with why we started this company and what we want to portray to our staff? Right. Because at the end of the day, I can tell our other consultants, go ahead, take your time off. But if they don't see me actively putting in the processes to take our time off, no one's going to feel comfortable enough doing it right. Like there's plenty of policies that say you have unlimited PTO, but then they kind of look down on you. If you do take that PTO or you take it longer than you expect, right? So I think what I've loved, loved about being a small business owner is actually saying like, hey, nobody's actually like chasing us. Nobody's running after us. We can be busy, but we can be calm and we can be in alignment with our values. And we need to operate in that way on a day to day to show our staff that it's totally okay to take that time off to do that. Professional development training, to come in with new ideas. I think it requires that active, everyday work, but it's some of the most rewarding work that I've ever had. And, you know, I thought I would run my own business. I was like, I can take vacation whenever I want. It's going to be great. I don't just have two weeks a year, you know? And I was like, that was like my biggest thing. But then what? I've also realized is the, the biggest thing that's changed for me is I don't have to deal with microaggressions every day. I don't have to deal with explaining to people why my opinion matters. I don't have to like, talk about my personal experience to a crazy extent in order to have somebody understand why the certain opinion matters. You know, I think moving into this space and being now with a team, a collective of people who we value what the other person has to say, we want to know what the other person does say. We kind of see it as like one big super brain, right? Like, it's okay that I don't know something because someone else on my team does. Let's engage that person and it takes the stress off of me. It just makes my day to day better. So I think what's exciting about being a small business owner is like that ownership. You create what you want. And I think that's why this area of equity, diversity, inclusion is so important to me because I do see my business as an extension of myself. It's not all about work, right? But like it is a big part of my day. It is what I've decided to create in this world so it's important to me that we operate in a way that's in alignment with our personal values as well.[Emily] Beautifully put. And I love what you said, you know, busy, calm and in alignment with our values. So that sounds like an ideal work situation.[Chandra] I would challenge businesses to say like, is it stressful because it's busy or could this be calm and busy? You know, like see if taking on some of these initiatives could actually make work better for you every day could make the workplace a more enjoyable place to be. And whether you can address this calmly because that's what you need, right? Addressing this type of topic that's very deep seated and institutional racism and the history of our country, and all of this stuff requires that you enter it with a sense of like calmness and ability to manage your reactions to things, to take the time to breathe, to come up with a response in a way that supports the people that you work around, and a way that you can call people into the conversation, a way you can call people out on certain behaviors. Like, I think all of that requires you to do internal work as well, to see if you can bring that sort of calm energy to this type of work. Like it's a lot of work, it's really important. But we all sit in a privilege. We're in a privilege situation where we are not worrying about our basic needs. We get to worry about the fairness that we're being treated with every day. And so, like, I think, you know, take the privileges that you have and, and take a breath and ask yourself some hard questions. And anybody can get engaged in this type of work, even if they've never even touched it before.[Emily] Yeah. And once we start building these healthy, you know, small businesses and business culture and then out to the community and out to our country and out to the world, so that we're just kind of we're looking for this ripple effect.[Chandra] Exactly, exactly.[Emily] Yeah. And so I'll end with well, I'm going to end with asking where people can find you. But first, we ask all of our guests what impact means to them as the radio impacts lab. So what does impact mean to you?[Chandra] Yeah. When I hear the word impact, I think both positive and negative. You know, it's really the effect of your actions on the community in the world. And I think we all come in with great intentions of positive impact. But there are plenty, plenty of ways we can impact the people around us negatively. And so I think that to me is like what I grapple with every day, right? Is that question of is this like a positive impact on the world, or is this something that's maybe driven by ego, maybe driven by selfishness, maybe driven by all of these other things that leads to a negative impact, even if I don't intend it? And I think that's what's important is like your impact is not tied to your intentions. It's tied to your actions for me.[Emily] Yeah, absolutely. That's so important and 100% true. You can have the best intentions, but your impact does not necessarily, match that. And so I think evaluating it comes back again to being okay, being wrong, being able to listen and knowing what your values are and what you're working towards.[Chandra] Absolutely. You know, I think being wrong and being able to grow from that is like one of the most powerful skills a business leader can have. Anyways, across the board, you know, you're never going to know everything about your small business either. Take it kind of in the same framework. It's something new to learn, and it's something that you can learn.[Emily] Yeah. Yeah. Fantastic. Well, Chandra, before I let you go, is there anything else that you wanted to share about this topic? And then also, where can people find you?[Chandra] Yeah. You know, I don't think there's much else to share. I know we've talked about a lot today, but I think, you know, people are people and everybody has a different kind of waking up point or action point in their life, whether it happens earlier in life or whether it happens recently. From what's going on with all of these administration changes, like everybody wakes up at a different point, everybody has a perspective that changes at a different point. And I would say like, that's awesome. Like drive into the feeling that like being uncomfortable is never going to end. But it is always an opportunity for learning. And so, you know, you're not going to get comfortable being uncomfortable. You're just going to be uncomfortable. But you're also going to get to learn and actually grow from this. And I would say, like, hold on to that piece of it, you know, to kind of strengthen, you know, in these times of discomfort or like learning something new.[Emily] Yeah.[Chandra] Yeah. And people can find us on essenceconsulting.work. That's our website. We will be launching a brand new website at the end of this month, which is very exciting. You can also find us on LinkedIn. Feel free to connect with me and we'll invite you to join our organizations page.[Emily] Fantastic. Thank you so much, Chandra. This was an amazing conversation for me. I feel inspired, I feel, you know, ready to get back into all of this work. So thank you so much for talking to me.[Chandra] Of course. Thank you so much, Emily, for having me. This was great, and I'm so glad that we had a chance to connect about this.[electronic music][electronic music concludes][Emily] Our Make an Impact tip of the week is take a conflict management course. Whether your budget requires a free webinar or allows for a paid, full course, learning how to handle tough conversations is crucial for creating a thriving, communicative team.[electronic music] Thanks for listening and make sure to do good in the world. If you have questions you'd like us to address on the podcast, you can reach us at info@riveocreative.com. Subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss out on any of our incredible upcoming guests. We'll see you soon at the Riveo Impact Lab.[electronic music][electronic music concludes]