Leading with Authenticity and Action : Ashley Brundage’s Mission to Empower Differences

What does it look like to lead with authenticity—and build power by embracing what makes you different?

In this episode of Riveo Impact Lab, co-hosts Elin Barton and Emily Adams sit down with Ashley Brundage, author, speaker, and the first transgender person to win any election in Florida. From navigating homelessness to founding a leadership company and running for state office, Ashley shares her powerful story of resilience and impact.

Tune in as we discuss:

• How Ashley built her four-step empowerment model
• The data behind her DEI work—and why tracking outcomes matters
• What it means to go beyond allyship and practice active sponsorship
• Her groundbreaking political run and what it taught her about leadership
• How visibility can shift culture in every room where power is built

This episode is a must-listen for anyone passionate about inclusion, equity, and leading meaningful change from wherever you are.

The Riveo Impact Lab is produced for you by Riveo Creative. For more Riveo Impact Lab content, including the video versions of all our episodes, please visit https://riveocreative.com/riveo-impact-lab/.

Transcript

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[electronic music starts]

Emily Adams: 0:04

Welcome to the Riveo Impact Lab, the podcast in which we explore what it means for small businesses to have real impact in an evolving world. On this podcast, we engage our curiosity around topics like sustainability, diversity and inclusion, and the ethical outcomes of our decisions, all from a small business perspective. I'm Emily and this is my co-host, Elin. In this episode, we're talking with the incredible Ashley Brundage. Ashley is the founder and president of Empowering Differences, an organization dedicated to creating lasting change through empowerment. As you'll hear in this interview, her journey is nothing short of remarkable. Overcoming homelessness, harassment and discrimination, Ashley not only transformed her own life, but has become a fierce advocate for LGBTQ+ rights, workplace equality and inclusive leadership. Ashley's advocacy has earned her numerous accolades, including the Leadership Award from Metro Inclusive Health, the Champion Award from Out & Equal, and recognition as one of Florida's Most Powerful and Influential Women by the National Diversity Council. She served on the National Board of Directors for GLAAD, and serves on the Corporate Advisory Council for the NGLCC-National LGBT Chamber of Commerce. Ashley recently completed her run for the Florida House of Representatives, and has been recognized as a top leader in both the LGBTQ+ community and corporate diversity spaces. Her dedication to breaking down barriers and lifting others up is truly inspiring, and we're thrilled to have her to share her story and insights.

Elin Barton: 1:39

I loved having Ashley as a guest on our podcast. You know, I had met her a few times, and every time I was struck by her warmth and her humor and just her energy. So having her say yes to the podcast was exciting. But then I started to learn more about all the things that she's done.

Emily Adams: 1:58

Yeah. She's incredible. When I was looking to create kind of our intro for how we would introduce Ashley, I was just overwhelmed by the amount of things we could say about her because she's really been involved in so much and at the helm of so much. She's, she's a really fascinating person.

Ein Barton: 2:14

She really is. And hearing her stories of all the things she's overcome and just her bravery. She talks in the interview about canvasing voters because she was running for state House of Representatives in Florida. And, she would go up to houses—well, she'll talk about it in the interview. But hearing, you know, how she goes up and talks to people who she knows are not a supporter of hers, and she does it in a way that a lot of times they kind of come around, it's very interesting.

Emily Adams: 2:48

Yeah. It doesn't surprise me. Like you said, Ashley is a very warm and enjoyable person to, to listen to. So that is, that makes sense to me that she's able to bring people around to understand her point of view.

Elin Barton: 3:01

Yeah. And she does it with a real like pragmatism. She does it with a real grounded, you know, she understands where others are coming from. And, and I think that's interesting, and I think it's needed in this day and age. So I'm really hopeful for our future because of leaders like Ashley.

Emily Adams: 3:21

I completely agree. We hope you enjoy the podcast.[electronic music begins][electronic music fades out]

Elin Barton: 3:32

Well, Ashley Brundage, welcome to our podcast. I'm really excited to have you here today. We tried to set this podcast interview up months ago, and you were really busy with the election. You had a lot going on and we had to push it back to today. So for our listeners, we're recording this in late January, 2025. And a couple days ago, we just had the inauguration. So I need to lead with that. Today we really want to talk about you, Ashley, your accomplishments and your work. But we have to, we just have to acknowledge that statement that Donald Trump made during the inauguration. And apparently, the most important thing that he had to get to right away... Not the price of eggs and groceries and milk and gas. Yeah, none of that. It’s the two genders. You know, we can only recognize two genders. There’s no other way that we can really interpret this except to aim it as a way to erase LGBTQ+ people from having the rights that they have fought so hard for. So I just want to hear your thoughts on this, like are you okay? How are you doing?

Ashley Brundage: 4:54

Yes. Well.

Elin Barton: 4:57

Where do we go from here?

Ashley Brundage: 4:57

Yeah. Number one, I'm okay. And while I am a proud out woman of transgender lived experience, the adjective is transgender. The noun is woman in that sentence. And women are of all different types. So, you know, to, to that degree, I identify as a woman. And, and so being woman is a pretty central core to who I am. It’s what all my legal documents say from the United States of America, from the state of Florida. And so from that standpoint, legally, I, to his degree, I'm a woman, so. I think I'm okay in that construct. You know, I, I don't know how they're going to enforce that, how much money they're going to have to spend to track down every single transgender person in the country. To me, I think that that might cost a little bit of money. And, you know, that's money that could be spent towards all of the campaign promises that made sense, that really were the ones that, you know, really got people to want to vote for him. Because, you know, I was having lots of conversations with lots of people about this topic, and everybody told me it was the fact that, you know, everything he’s going to do for the economy and how he was going to help prices. And so, you know, that's the part that really confuses me. What is the priority? I didn't see anything about record profits from grocery stores being held accountable. Like that would have been the EO that I wanted as EO number one, if that was really what the goal was. So I think a lot of people got fleeced. I did get, you know, probably hundreds of messages over the last couple of weeks of people who were really scared. And I advised lots of people to run to the passport office and stand in the line and literally get a passport before you can't get one. And, you know, and a lot of people took my advice. Some people didn't. And, you know, that's the nature of how this works, is that there's a pendulum swings in every political environment. So you know that if you're if you're on one side of the pendulum, eventually you're going to end up either really high in the sky or really low in the ground. And, and you have to be prepared for that. And I think being prepared for something to change your world is not easy. And that's why it's so important to have lots of emotional intelligence, leadership and empathy, because all of those things can help you along this journey to understand that, “Hey, while my life isn't perfect, you know, it could be worse,” or “Hey, while there are things that I'm doing that can help other people, maybe there's something else I could do to help even more people.” And so this is kind of like the thing that I think separates the people who are really successful in this environment versus the people who really struggle.

Elin Barton: 7:50

Good answer. And, yes, it was a curious thing for him to lead with. And good advice to go to the passport office.

Ashley Brundage: 8:00

It's too late for that, I mean, but. Because that's going to, yeah, that's going to be a disaster. I mean, well, the other thing too is that and I just, for your listeners, if anyone is saying, “Oh, well there really is only two genders,” you know that that is actually 100% proven to be false. 1% of everyone that's born in pretty much every country in the world has some kind of birth difference. They might have, you know, XXY chromosomes. In fact, in the way that they worded it on the website, technically everyone is born a female in their, in their description on the website of this executive order, because all nucleuses start female and then some developmental male chromosomes and some don't. And, and so we're all humans. I mean, I’m givin’ a science lesson here. We're all humans. We're all actually born as, at conception, female and then male sex characteristics are added after the fact. So the sheer fact that they wanted to define it based on conception, which is really funny because I think that there's a, there's a call out there to anti-abortion as well, you know, this, this, this also is very comical. And then there are people who are born intersex, about 1% of the population. They're not transgender. They're intersex. You know, it’s people who might have different types of, of reproductive organs. Some might be male, some might be female. And so those people exist as well. And so you're basically saying that those people don't even exist either when you know that that happens. And in fact, all of the gender affirming surgeries, like 98% of all gender affirming surgeries that happen on minors, happen on intersex kids, at birth, usually or somewhere in the realm of when they're born. Parents make decisions on how to raise the child. And, you know, in that scenario, if there are only two genders, you have a 50% chance of guessing right. And also a 50% chance of guessing the wrong, you know, so. Should we be really focusing on this, though? That's always my question.

Elin Barton: 10:14

Yeah and I don’t even want this really to be the focus of this interview because we have a lot more other things to talk about. I just, I don’t really get it. I was always brought up as, you know, take care of yourself and let kind of like the, the trendy “Let them,” thing that’s, Mel Robbins thing that’s going around now. You know, that’s kind of how I feel about things is, you do you, I’ll do me, all good, you know? You believe what you want to believe, I’ll believe what I want to believe, as long as we’re not hurting anybody. Let’s just, let’s just go forward. I believe our differences make us more interesting I believe our differences make us more interesting. Yes. That’s just me. 100%. But Ashley, we are here today to talk about you. And I do want to move on because we do have a lot to cover and you have a very interesting, to put it mildly a very interesting life. Many directions we can go in. But I want to start out by just giving our listeners a sense of who you are. Your journey began, you, you navigated a lot of difficulties from homelessness, discrimination, harassment Can you talk just a little bit about how you started out in early life and how that got you to where you are today?

Ashley Brundage: 11:33

Yeah. I mean, early on, I kind of just, I struggled as a youth just because I couldn't figure out what was wrong. We didn't really have terminology for gender, just differences. You know, and so I, I, you know, just kind of tried to figure out how to survive. And, and having kids was really the best way for me to do that, because I could really, I could really mom the heck out of my kids. And so I did that. I had two amazing young men. They really saved my life. Having them in my life made all the difference, every way, every which way to Sunday. And, and so I focused on them a lot. And, and, you know, allowing them to be the focus of, of why I existed. And, and as with any great person that does a lot of mom-ing, you know, the, their, everything that they do is celebrated and, and so I really focused on that. I actually, I did work 12 years in the restaurant industry. I started at the bottom and work my way all the way up, really with their support. And then I reached a breaking point where I could not really survive anymore, and live a lie about who I am, and, and I was really struggling. And, and so then I made the decision to, to start gender transition as I lost everything. I lost my job and, and my house. It was just not a really good situation. And, and so then that kind of led me down the path of trying to figure out how to find employment and grow, and grow a new career and start anew. And, and it's really interesting when you're starting something from scratch, if anyone has ever lost anything and you're always like, “Okay, well, how can I find that thing” or “How can I get it back” or, or “Let me retrace my steps,” right? And it's, you try to do all these analytical thinking things to help you in your journey. And, and if you've lost everything, now that, it teaches you lots of resilience. And, and so I learned lots of resilience. And then that led me on this path of figuring out that,“Okay, well, I can find employment, but am I going to be happy? And how is that going to work? And, and everything is, everyone is hiring entry level positions right now,” just given the, at the time, it was after the 2008 housing economic crisis, which is why I lost my house. You know, we were in a economic recession. Things weren't great. And so it was just kind of interesting. And I was like, “Well, if I'm already at the bottom, I might as well be at the bottom.” And so I thought if I could go out and find employment and, and be my true authentic self, that it would send a ripple signal of inclusivity and, and so that's what I did. I got, I started my second career in the banking industry, and, I started as a part time bank teller, as me, as my authentic self. They were like, “Oh yeah, we'll hire you,” because I had basically had an interview where I literally laid the foundation for why DEI is good for business. And they were loving that, and they were like, “Oh, wow, well, you're going to generate so much more business for us.” And I was like, “Yes, exactly. because I'm going to bring all these people who are different that don't currently use your bank, and I'm going to get, I'm going to have them all banking at your bank.” And they were like, “Well then yeah, let’s take a flier on this woman.” And so I got hired. And then over the first four and a half years, I went and served in all the different financial capacities. Of course, I didn't really realize that working as a bank teller was a sales position, but certainly, certainly it is. I didn't realize that beforehand. And, and so I started showcasing that I could sell to my community and other communities, and I started tracking the revenue from that. And I was generating more than $3 million in new revenue, new revenue each year.

Elin Barton: 15:42

Wow.

Ashley Brundage: 15:44

Yeah. Not, not just counting existing revenue, but all the new business I was bringing in. And so that was pretty substantial. And then they came to me and they were like, “Hey, well, can you do this like in other communities? Can you teach other people to do what you're doing?” And I was like, “Yes, of course I can. You know, it's just a form of DEI.” And they were like, “Oh, okay.” And so I became the national vice president of DEI for this bank. And, and so then they were like, “Oh, this is great.” And so then I became, you know, that person. And I would show people how to do that across the country. And, and we were tracking a lot of revenue, like, like millions and millions of dollars of revenue. And, and it was huge. And so then that kind of led me on my career path. And it was a blast. And then I did leave the banking industry about two and a half years ago, to focus full time on my own company after publishing a bestselling, award-winning book and, and so then I started doing consulting, and, and I run my own practice. And so that's kind of led me to where I am today and kind of being in this space, which is super fun.

Elin Barton: 16:59

Oh yeah, it’s a great story. And looking back it all makes sense, right? Like you kind of had to go through all of that to have the, I assume, you know, I don’t want to speak for you, but like to have the perspective of where you are today. I always feel like life is happening for us, you know, on some level even when it doesn’t seem like it.

Ashley Brundage: 17:18

Yeah. Yeah, exactly.

Elin Barton: 17:19

May I ask you, like, how old are you? Like, what era were you growing up in? Yeah. So I'm 45 or about to be 45 this year. So you were kind of growing up in the 80s, is that right?

Ashley Brundage: 17:30

Yeah, I grew up in the 80s, though my parents are boomers. My brother and sister grew up in the 70s and, and so I kind of have a mix kind of, across the different, all the different age generations.

Elin Barton: 17:47

And at that time, to my memory, there wasn't—like differences weren't really so much talked about in the mainstream. Like I can't remember seeing gay couples on TV or, you know, anything like that back in the Yeah.

Ashley Brundage: 18:05

Oh yeah. Definitely not.

Elin Barton: 18:06

Am I right? Am I getting that wrong? No, you're right. Sometimes time is a little weird, thinking back on those times.

Ashley Brundage: 18:13

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, you're right.

Elin Barton: 18:15

It feels like we've come a long way. Hopefully that will, that will continue, you know, getting back to my very first question. But, you, my friend, are doing great work, and you mentioned your book. I do want to ask you about that. You, in the book, you've got a four step process to use empowerment to create change. Your book is called Empowering Differences, which is a fantastic title. Can you briefly kind of outline that process for us?

Ashley Brundage: 18:43

Yeah, yeah. The four steps are pretty simple. It's not, it's not meant to boil the ocean over. But, basically, step one, kind of, in any leadership model that's really successful, is really to look in the mirror. And, and so one of the things that we recommend is an emotional intelligence questionnaire. So anyone can go right now onto my website, empoweringdifferences.com. Click the self-assessment button and you can download the questionnaire. It’s 21 questions that are kind of supposed to get you started in this process of kind of looking at yourself. So knowing yourself is step one. Answer some of these questions about your existence, about your empowerment, your empowerment of other people, how you move in the world, how your differences impact you. Because they impact you. Right? Yeah. I mean, like, I, I, you know, ask people a lot about their rating of their level of empowerment. And, you know, you'd be surprised on some of the differences that are impacting people in this world. And then step two is to know other people who are different. So we call that “knowing others.” And this is, of course, where you learn about people who are different and, you know, in order to do that, right, you have to put yourself out there. You have to meet different people. You have to ask, ask the question, you know. And, and so, you know, there's some support mechanisms for that. We have, I actually interviewed more than 15 people when I wrote the book. So you hear from them throughout the book as well. And they talk about how their differences impacted their journey. You know, while we're all, we all have the ten differences. This is what makes diversity so powerful in, in the world. We all have the ten differences, but it's just a matter of whether or not we feel that we're being empowered or not for each of them, and whether or not we're empowering other people for those ten differences as well. And then the third part is to develop a strategy. And so developing your strategy, right, looks different for how your makeup is, right, like we talked about and how you interact with other people who are different. So if you see that you are disempowered for your race—which I've had a lot of people that we've been surveying over the last year who are white and say they're disempowered for their race, which is really kind of shocking to me, but that's to me personally. But everyone makes their own decision about how they feel about their differences. You can't force someone else to feel a different way because of ways society operates and depending on where you are in the world. It’s still up to that person to make that decision about how they feel, because they'll never develop the emotional intelligence necessary to recognize where they live in this world if we don't let them figure it out on their own. We built a solution that helps people to kind of measure this by putting a sliding scale, zero for disempowered, 100 for empowered. And people take this as a digital survey and then, and then we actually produce a report for them so they can recognize where they're at, because whether you're empowered or disempowered for any one of your differences, you still have to take leadership actions to make a difference for people. And so that, of course, is the fourth and final step, which is what we call“empowering actions.” Some people call them leadership actions. People look at them a little bit differently because, depending upon if you feel that you're disempowered for your social-economic class, which statistically is the second most disempowered of all the ten differences that we study, social-economic class will then tell you, okay, well, wait a minute. If I want to empower someone's social, economic class position, that's a different leadership action than if I want to empower them for their gender, since that's one of the things we talk about, right? Gender empowerment, the leadership actions for gender empowerment might look more like inclusion and education and, and access, whereas the, the leadership actions for social-economic class empowerment is definitely going to look more like investments and access, and then maybe education. So, you know, you see the actions are different based on the differences. And so that's why it's so important to do work around your empowering differences. Know where you stand. Know how you interact with others. Build the strategy. And then take action. Because then you'll be making the right actions based on your differences and who else you're interacting with. And that's what Empowering Differences is all about.

Elin Barton: 23:25

And that approach, Ashley, like that to me feels like very high-level, like very evolved. And it feels from where I'm sitting, like, that's the way we have to go, because it's not about saying,“I'm right. You're wrong.” It's about conversations. Not easy conversations, but like a willingness to do something better, I guess, to listen to. You know, you talked, when you and I talked previously and you were expressing your—like, even to me, I was like, “Wow. Wow. Ashley is willing to have conversations with people who are very different from her.” And, you know, we all can learn from that. Right. And that’s what the world needs more of right now.

Ashley Brundage: 24:12

Yeah, I've done that. I don't shy away from any conversation with people who are different.

Elin Barton: 24:18

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Absolutely. But yeah. So you have been on this life path from, you know, those massive challenges, you know, you talked about, to quite an impressive resume that you've developed, you know, from that time forward, I guess, or, you know, on this path with this DEI work that you're doing. You've been on numerous national boards and councils. You've been interviewed for Forbes, the Miami Herald, ABC, CBS, many more. You've, you've won leadership awards, even one from the governor of Florida, you shared with me. Listeners can go to your website, empoweringdifferences.com, and they can see the full list there. It's truly outstanding and impressive. And, you know, kudos for all that you've accomplished thus far. I'm curious about like, what would you say are the main contributors to that success and visibility that you've, you've created?

Ashley Brundage: 25:23

I mean, obviously, my kids is number one. I mean, without them, I wouldn't be here, as I said earlier. How old are they now, Ashley? Yeah. So this year, they're going to be 20 and 18. So they're not kids anymore. And I have two adults.

Elin Barton: 25:38

Funny how that happens. Ashley Brundage: Yeah. It's shocking. I'm an empty nester now. So that's kind of interesting. It's targeting some new waters for me. You know, so that's a big thing to it. I think that literally every supervisor that I've ever worked with has been really great. I mean, you know, I've had supervisors defend me to customers and choose to not have customers anymore because they knew how valuable I was to their organization. You know, when you have someone who chooses you and tells the customer that they're not the customer anymore, that's a big deal. Not everybody would do that and see the bigger picture, right, that I'm bringing over so many more business, you know, so much more business to the organization just by existing. You know, that was really powerful. That happened on several occasions from really great managers that I had. And in actuality, really every manager I've worked with has been amazing. And I know that that's probably not the case for everybody, but, even if they had things that they needed to learn, I worked with them. You know, never trying to work against people is, is not easy, because, you know, we, we as humans sometimes get threatened by people in authority positions. And so in looking at them as an equal, even though they're your manager, looking at them as an equal, as someone who's an equal partner in both your successes, has been something that's really helped me, in this, in this journey. And then lastly, I'd probably say that, not discounting anyone. You know, I think that we learn some of the best leadership lessons from the most unlikely sources, as I often say. You know, if you're in the Uber, well, the Uber driver knows a lot. I mean, they see a lot of people. They know a lot about a lot of things. And you never know. You can learn something from them. I tend, you know, it's like you get in the subway or you get in transit, and then you put your headphones in and you don't listen to anybody, you know, like, unless you're listening to something that's going to, like, enlighten your mind on something, then yeah, that's one thing. But, but I'll listen to what everybody else is talking about, what people are saying. I try to soak in as much as I can because, you never know where you're going to find your next nugget of really cool stuff. Right, right.

Ashley Brundage: 28:01

And I don't know, I just really enjoy that. I really enjoy, you know, living the life, right? Live the life that you have and soak in as much cool crap as you can along the way. Because you're going to find it all, I swear. You will find some of the coolest stuff ever when you start listening. So really listening is kind of that last bullet, I would say.

Elin Barton: 28:24

Thank you for that nugget, that’s a good one. That’s a good reminder. We are all here on earth school and we’re able to learn lots of lessons if we’re open to that.

Ashley Brundage: 28:34

Yes.

Elin Barton: 28:35

So, let’s talk a little bit about politics, overcoming adversity Yeah. has been a theme in your life it seems. And recently, you won the Democratic Primary, you live in Florida, your district was highly Republican, what did you say, 70% Republican? No. Well, actually, it's like almost 40% Republican, but only 30% Dems, yeah, in my district. Okay, gotcha.

Ashley Brundage: 29:08

81, 81%.

Elin Barton: 29:09

Huge landslide. That’s a big deal. Yeah. Yeah. And then you’re in the general election for state senate, correct?

Ashley Brundage: 29:21

In the House

Elin Barton: 29:21

House, okay. The general election did not go as you hoped but but again, big learning opportunity and you had some massive, massive accomplishments. So I want to hear you talk a little bit about that, and and then because, you know, because you didn’t win I want to hear a little bit about the resilience. How did you stay resilient through this process?

Ashley Brundage: 29:43

Let's see. Yeah. So I won a, I won a primary. I entered the race really late, like not quite Kamala Harris late, but almost. Like she had, like, a month and a half. I had a month and a half headstart over her, over her, which certainly is, is not easy. I mean, when you have, when you’re running against somebody that's been running for office for six years, eight years, it's like, ten years, it's like really hard to kind of, to make up the ground. Because when you're running for office, right, you have to raise money because you need the money to send out mailers. You need money to send out text messages. Right? You need money to, to, you know, send out emails, like. You need money to buy water for volunteers and t-shirts and, and stuff and signs and yard signs. So if you don't have those resources, then it makes your life really, really hard. So, and if you don't have time to call people and ask people for money and also have time to knock on people's doors, how are you going to make all that work?

Elin Barton: 30:49

Now, why did you start late? Were you just unsure about running?

Ashley Brundage: 30:52

Yeah, I actually, was not going to run. I was going to move away from Florida. I was going to move to New York, because I was kind of over Florida at that point, and, and I wanted to leave. And so I got talked out of leaving to run. I got recruited by the, the Democratic pro-choice women's organization for the state of Florida. And, and so they, they called me and they were like,“We really need you badly.” And I was like, “Okay.” And then I showed up and they helped with all kinds of marketing and websites and stuff. And I was like, “Wow.” And they made introductions to key partners that could help in the election. And, and then they worked really hard to help me, which was great. And I said, “Are you sure you want me?” And they were like,“No, no, no, we really want you.” And I was like, “Okay.” So, we went down that path and, and we had a blast. You know, we won a primary race handily, which, which actually sent a huge signal, right, that, “Oh, wow. I could be competitive,” which then sent a signal to the other side of the political aisle that they needed to spend $2.5 million

to—Elin Barton: 32:12

In a local, for House seat.

Ashley Brundage: 32:17

Yeah, for a local state House seat that—the local state House seat, by the way, only pays $29,500 a year if you win. So it's not like anyone's going to get rich from being a state representative.

Elin Barton: 32:30

So you were, like, a threat.

Ashley Brundage: 32:31

Yeah. The average, I want to say, from my research, the average spend for a state House seat is about $375,000. That's the average, so 2.5 million is an f ton. So that, that resulted in $1 million worth of television commercials and $1 million of mail. If you ever wanted to know what $1 million worth of mail looks like, it's about a stack, about this big that goes to about, about 60,000 houses.

Elin Barton: 33:03

Wow.

Ashley Brundage: 33:05

And, and so, yeah, that that was really fun. And we really had a, we had a blast. And we knocked on 9,000 doors. And I ended up winning 43% of the vote in a district that was less than 30, like 30% Dems, and won 43%. Obviously, that meant I won a bigger, a larger share of the independents than, than my opponent, and, and rightfully so, because, you know, I was talking about the actual issues that are, that are affected by people. And, and, you know, so sometimes you have to go into having a conversation with someone that you know vehemently disagrees with your entire existence in the world. And when you talk about issues that really affect them, then people consider to want to work with you. And I say, “want to work with you,” is also the same as want to vote for you, or is also the same as wanting to, you know, make an impact. And it's the impact, right? That impact of people either working with you or voting for you or hanging out with you, right? Whatever it is, you get people that want to be with you on any construct and you know that your message resonated with them. And this translates to anything that people do in the world. Knowing that not everybody agrees with you is an important takeaway. And, and you know, that's the thing that we can always learn more from is realizing that that does exist, that people will disagree with you, and you have to find a way to find yourself in this commonality or common ground moment where you can find what you do agree on. And that's so powerful.

Elin Barton: 34:57

Yes. You know, because at the end of the day, we're humans, and we can work together. We, you see it all the time; in natural disasters, nobody's asking what political party you are. They're like, “Do you, can I help you because your house is flooding” or whatever is going on, you know. I hope we can get back to that in some way, shape or form when there isn’t a disaster happening. But with you, you, you accomplish so much politically. I really love your philosophy and your attitude and your actions. And I'm certain that you faced, you know, a lot of challenging times during the election and beyond too. How, how would you say you do remain resilient and then use those challenges for future success? Do you have any words of wisdom around that?

Ashley Brundage: 35:54

Yeah. I mean, this just comes to, you know, preparing yourself that, things might not always go exactly the way that you want them to. If you're prepared for anything, then you know that you might get a no. If you're making a sales call and you know, and then someone's like, not interested or someone doesn't write you back or whatever the case may be, you have to be prepared to have a different approach. And you have to change the approach, or you—and then each time you change the approach, you have to learn the broader message. And I think that that's probably the biggest thing that I learned from this process. Right? I mean, you know, I mean, having a conversation with someone and talking to them about lowering the cost of their home insurance, and literally I actually know how to do that tomorrow. And it's really ironic that there, you know, people are acting like they don't know how to do it, but it's pretty easy. And, you know, so you talk about that, you talk about realistic solutions for people, and then eventually you're going to win over more people. For the most part, you know, people are inquisitive. Human nature is to always want to usually learn more about something. This is kind of why we went to the moon. This is why we proved the Earth is not flat. This is like why we want to go to Mars, right? This is like, you know, this is why we categorize every single species that exist on this planet, right? This is why people are fascinated with transgender rights, right, even if they're not transgender, which makes not a lot of sense to me. This all is about the same thing, that humans always want to look and learn about the things that are different. And, and this is no difference on any of the, any, any of the differences that people have, especially ones that people don't know a lot about. And so if you live in that space, you have a difference that people don't know a lot about, everyone around you every second always wants to know everything, and they want the whole story. So just know that going into it.

Elin Barton: 38:05

That’s true. That’s true.

Ashley Brundage: 38:09

And capitalize on that. But capitalize on that. Because you know that they want to know everything there is to know about this topic, you now have an advantage in that situation. And how you use that advantage is hugely important.

Elin Barton: 38:26

So I don't know if this is a good segue or not. It might be because I want to ask you about actionable allyship.

Ashley Brundage: 38:34

Yes. Elin Barton: which you talk about on the website. So can you just, like, kind of define what that means and, how that's played in your journey and made an impact on your path? Yeah, I mean, one of the things I love is like, you know how like, it's almost like the LGBTQIA, [pronounces it as a word] as I like to call it, like they've seized control of the rainbow. Right? It's like,“The rainbow is like God's gift to the earth.” Right? And people get upset about that sometimes. But it's all very colorful, right? the colorfulness of it. And, and there's all these different flags for different letters in the community and. I always say that, my favorite color is gold because allies are gold, in my opinion. You know, like, have you ever heard the saying “Silence is golden,” like in the movie theater? They used to say that,“Silence is golden.” I say allies are golden. And allies are golden because they're really the person that can amplify their message. If you're in a room with someone and, you know, maybe they're, maybe they don't have the level of Ashley-level confidence, right, where I'm going to go up and knock on the door that has a Trump flag. You know, that's, that's an Ashley-level confidence thing. Not everybody's going to have that kind of confidence to be able to go and just, go into somebody that you know probably vehemently hates the fact that you even exist in this world. And I want to know why you hate me. I want to know more about that. But the ally, right, could be the person that says, “Oh, well, I know Ashley. She's great.” Right? Or, “I know, I did business with Ashley and she helped me lower my mortgage rate.” And, or, “I know Ashley,” right, and you can fill in the blank into why you know Ashley, right, because, “Oh, she worked and helped my company, right, grow in revenue by 20%,” right? Whatever the case may be, an ally has an opportunity to stand up and provide an opportunity to showcase why that person exists, why they’re there and why you should listen to them. And that could be so powerful, especially, like I was saying earlier about if the person doesn't have the same level of confidence, not everybody's going to be in that space. Not everybody's an extrovert, not everybody—right? So sometimes an ally has to recognize that. And so how you do recognition, by listening, right, by taking action, by showcasing a statistical analysis that you heard from this person or that you saw the results, you share the results. Allies have to be very purposeful to take as many actions as they can. So that's why, actionable allyship, right? You can't be an ally and be sitting, sitting over here and just hanging out. Eventually, you have to take action. So whatever it is that you do to take that action, you have to make sure that you do it and that it's very, very, been received by the other side. And if you haven't validated that it's been received by the other side, then that means you haven't done enough.

Elin Barton: 41:42

Thank you for laying that out like that. I think that is a very important message, and one that we all need to keep in mind for the next four years and beyond. But there's going to be a lot of opportunities to be good allies. So thank you. I just have a few more questions for you. This has been a great conversation, so keep you a little bit longer. Corporate America has made some advances, I think, with inclusivity. Jury's out on what's going to happen with this new administration. I believe that a lot of companies are going to stay the course because it's important to them. I hope I'm right about that. But beyond that, where do you think there's the biggest need still for improvement with corporate DEI?

Ashley Brundage: 42:35

Yeah. Oh, this is the easy one, actually. Yeah, this is probably the easiest question you’ve given me the whole day.

Elin Barton: 42:42

Okay.

Ashley Brundage: 42:43

Yeah. It's that DEI is good for business, right? I mean, we call it DEI now. And it's that—right, the word diversity scaring people. The word equity really scares people. The word inclusion somewhat scares people because it’s guilt by association with those other two words. And so we have a marketing problem with DEI. If we had led to it as the people who sell more things to more people who are different make more money, if we had just led with that every day, all day, we would have zero problems. So obviously you're hearing noise, right? Costco, right, pushed back and was like,“We're going to keep our DEI.” And then Apple the other day said the same thing. And then some companies, yeah, are caving. And the companies that are caving are going to have a hard time recruiting and retaining top talent. That's going to affect their bottom line long term. Yeah, they're going to be spending less money on DEI, but they're going to be spending more money on lawsuits. They’re going to be spending more money on legal challenges. They're going to be spending more money on trying to recruit people to go work there, because people aren't going to want to go work there. They could choose a place that has an inclusion program versus one that doesn't. People are going to be smart in wanting to choose a place that does eventually. But the biggest thing here in this space is that people don't. People are fearful of DEI because the word diversity divides people sometimes. But that's why I use the word differences, because no one will argue that we're all different, right? There are 8.5 billion different people on the planet, right? 300 and what, 335 million people in the United States of America? No two people are exactly alike. Even identical twins are different in their way of thinking and their way of working, and their way of building relationships. You know, so that's the that's diversity, is the differences. But people don't realize that that means everybody because they think diversity and anything that means a Black person or that that means LGB or the T or that it means Ashley, or that it means woman, or that it means right. They start thinking about in their head what that means, and they think that that doesn't include them. And the moment that someone feels like they're not included this is when they get fearful, and then they start wanting to take away things. Oh, I don't want to be. I don't want to. I can't believe we, I’m going to write a letter that that program is horrible because it doesn't include me when it actually, literally is created to help that person too. And that's a huge issue where we really have haven't done a great job of, messaging why it's so good for everybody. Because that white middle aged guy that's saying, oh, DEI is the death of my career development. If he's saying that then that means he missed the memo, that he could learn more by selling more things to more people who are different, by learning more about them. He should go and join the African-American or Black Employee Resource Group and learn about Black people. Right. And then he can he can relate better to his Black clients. Right? That's a perfect real world solution where DEI is good. Right. And if there are five accountants and on the team and all five are middle aged white guys, and then you have an opening and then you, you get all the resumes and you have the final two resumes. Is, is, you know, is a woman who wears a hijab and the white guy and the resumes are comparable, maybe the white guy's resume is better, maybe he went to a better school or whatever it is. It's better. Is it really better? Somebody will say, well, DEI will say that she should get the job. But I think that if his resume is better, he should get the job. But are we putting in to work, of your calculation, in which resume is better, who is going to be able to sell things to more people who are more different? Because if that goes into your resume calculation, then she would be more qualified, so.

Elin Barton: 47:03

Yeah. It's really a no brainer. I. That's one of the things I love about the way you frame all of this is that it's done in a way it's A not threatening. And B makes perfect business sense. No brainer. I think that's a powerful I think I think you're right about the messaging.

Ashley Brundage: 47:20

Yeah. The companies have to do a better job at the messaging behind this effort behind the corporate space. Right. That's differences and equity is a whole other podcast okay.

Elin Barton: 47:34

But but yes, embrace our differences. It makes perfect sense and perfect business sense. But let me ask you, like for, small businesses, one of the things that we're always talking about is that no action is too small. Sometimes people who are in small businesses like myself, feel like, well, we're, you know, too small to make a difference or whatever. I don't believe that anymore. But for small business leaders, owners, employees, whatever, who want to make a difference, advocate for workplace equality, advocate for, transgender equality. Is there a first step that you could just, you know, something doable that you could recommend?

Ashley Brundage: 48:17

Well, my company. Right? We we do the assessment. We do an assessment for the team, and we rate how empowered the group is. This helps to figure out which of the differences might be lacking in the empowerment. Right. Because like I said earlier, is that all people have all the ten differences. You know, so if you think about it. Right, it's our our abilities and attributes, our age, our social economic class or education, ethnicity, gender, language, race, religion and sexuality. Right. So you have all these ten differences. They're always moving amongst all the people. So if it's ten people, if it's three people, it's 2000 people. The ten differences are always there amongst the people who work together on a day to day basis. So people are disempowered or people are empowered for any one of those differences. It can impact the way in which the team dynamic operates. So knowing is so important. Knowing where the team stands on that level is really important.

Elin Barton: 49:20

And it sounds like just taking that action of, you know, taking that survey and starting the conversation changes the dynamic.

Ashley Brundage: 49:28

Yeah, exactly.

Elin Barton: 49:29

So where do you see the future of transgender visibility and acceptance in the workplace and society? And, how do you think people can feel can find hope in this current landscape?

Ashley Brundage: 49:42

It's tough right now. Especially the fact that, you know, and the executive order is really basically targeted the community. People are panicking. People are really fearful. I mean, I think that there's, you know, there's at least 1% of the population we're talking about 1% of the population. So there's there's a lot of fear right now. So I think if you're an ally, and you know, somebody is trans, right? Maybe, you know, you could do a little bit more volunteerism or advocacy, and you, you give money to Trans Lifeline. I am a big proponent of Trans Lifeline. I think that's a great organization to support. You know, so I think that right now. Right. You have to look out for people and make sure that that they know that, that they should exist. I think that that's the number one issue right now is people are really scared, you know, to be told that they're, you know, your whole process is invalidated and, like people are really literally thinking that they're going to, like, hunt them down and come after them and want to change all their documents. I can't imagine how much that would cost the United States government to want to hunt down, the, the 300,000 transgender people in America. Right? I mean, like, I just really think that there's probably a lot of way more important things that we should be doing. But but nonetheless, people are really scared. So knowing that that's real, in the, in the right now, I mean, I think that there's some more systemic things that people can do. But, but that's it. That should be some easy things. Initially.

Elin Barton: 51:20

I know it's dire. I know it's dire. Do you and yet the pendulum will swing, you know.

Ashley Brundage: 51:26

Yeah, the the pendulum, is a perfect example. You know, we, you know, politics always moves in waves like that. But there was a lot of wins. I mean, with, you know, the trans community elected someone to Congress. I mean, that's a big frickin deal.

Elin Barton: 51:41

Who can’t use the bathroom.

Ashley Brundage: 51:42

Well, I mean, I think that the the rule that rules discussion, I I think that they step back a little bit from that, but but she does have her own bathroom in her own office. And, and, you know, so there's that. But, yeah, I mean, I, I don't, I don't know, I mean, I might have, I might handle that a little bit differently. I probably still use the women's room, even with the rule saying that, just because of, you know, about, you know, comments about genitalia and stuff. And I'm like, do you want to check mine like that? I mean, because really, I have anyone that saw the whole girls and sports thing, go look and see what, AOC said. You know, because basically, like enlightens predators, to want to, to look, to look at girls and look at young women like is it's absolutely mind blowingly bonkers as the right who, who is the who is the typical predator in our country. So yeah, I mean the positive side is look and see the successes. I mean, we also elected someone in Kentucky. We elected someone in Iowa, House of Representatives and, and one of my friends is on the Lexington City Council in Kentucky, there were positive moments as well. You just have to look for them and, and, you know, and then obviously, yeah, I did win an election in Florida, it's a pretty big deal. I mean, while it wasn't the election I really wanted to win we still made history, and, and we built a coalition now, and, you know, so if I want to run again in the future, I have a whole, you know, foundation for that, which is which is really powerful. And street cred. Street cred is really powerful too, if people don’t know this.

Elin Barton: 53:34

You know, and I think, you know, thinking about you said you grew up in the 80s and and we said there really weren't any public, you know, that I can remember any characters in sitcoms or shows or anything or, you know, in the, you know, pop culture and to today where that's really changed. And there are some elected officials. It's it is changing. And I guess we can take some hope there as well.

Ashley Brundage: 53:59

Yeah, 100%.

Elin Barton: 54:00

Thank you for that lens and that perspective and Ashley, my second to last question, and the last question is really just about how people can find you and support you. But but my last question, my last real question is what does the word impact mean to you? This whole podcast is about impact. So I'm curious your definition.

Ashley Brundage: 54:21

Yeah. I mean, for me, impact is, what is the result? What did you actually accomplish? And and and how did it how did it impact people? So did you make a bunch of money for a bunch of people? Did you sell a bunch of things? Did you did you improve emotional intelligence? Did you, right, and how are you tracking that? So if you're not tracking, what is it? We measure impact based on level of empowerment for groups and individuals. Right. So if you're not doing that, if you're not measuring something, then how do you know that you're making an impact? Obviously. Yeah. You can look at the tax return because someone's measuring that. And you can look at the paycheck. That could be somebody's impact. But what is your impact? I think that if you know the result, then you typically will know what the impact is. And sometimes it's emotional, but a lot of times it's usually monetarial based. For, for at least the, the, people that I do a lot of work with, they focus a lot on that, on that bottom line, the, the, the greenery, in some case, or the coins, coins too, you will track that as well. So yeah. What's the what's the impact. What did you actually accomplish?

Elin Barton: 55:40

Yeah, great answer. Thank you. And thank you for this discussion, it was amazing. How can people find you? How can they support you, and stay in touch, and you know, ultimately hopefully hire you to help them with their companies, because I can’t wait until you come in and help us. Yeah great answer. Thank you. Thank you for this discussion, it was amazing. how can they support you, and stay in touch and you know ultimately hire you to help them with their companies because I can’t wait until you come in and help us.

Ashley Brundage: 55:58

Yeah. So empowering differences.com is our website. And that's where people can download the assessment, the self-assessment questionnaire that I was speaking of. You can you can message us. You can engage with any of our content, our published works, the books, workbooks, online learning curriculum, conversation cards. There's something really for every different medium that you're thinking about wanting to learn, about how to empower people's differences, including your own, because you are people, but you can also engage with us, on our website and with our newsletter, there's a newsletter we send out a newsletter every other week. And then on social media, of course, at empowering diff - D I F F. And then, at I’mAshleyTBrundage, all one word. And you see you can but you can probably find me pretty easily on the Google or the wherever. I have a lot of followers. So that's, I'll probably pop up somewhere pretty quickly. Because, you know, I've been in the news and stuff.[electronic music fades in]

Elin Barton: 57:03

And I suspect you will continue doing so. I hope you do.

Ashley Brundage: 57:07

Yes.

Elin Barton: 57:07

We’ve got important, important work to do Ashley.

Ashley Brundage: 57:10

100%.

Elin Barton: 57:10

Yeah, thank you. Well, thanks for talking with us today and until next time.

Ashley Brundage: 57:16

My pleasure.

Elin Barton: 57:17

Thank you.[electronic music concludes]

Emily Adams: 57:25

Want to make an impact. Consider reviewing your hiring practices. Make sure that all candidates are treated fairly by eliminating gendered language, ensuring interviewers are trained on bias, and evaluating the company's recruitment materials. Thanks for listening and make sure to do good in the world. If you have questions you'd like us to address on the podcast, you can reach us at info@riveocreative.com. Subscribe wherever you listen so you don't miss out on any of our incredible upcoming guests. We'll see you soon at the Riveo Impact Lab.[electronic music concludes]